THEOS Cybernova

THEOS Cybernova - Paul Jackson: Turning the Tables – 100 Days as CEO

• Theos CyberNova • Season 1 • Episode 9

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THEOS Cybernova Ep. 09 – Paul Jackson: Turning the Tables – 100 Days as CEO

What happens when the host becomes the guest? How does a cybersecurity leader transition from investigator to CEO? And what are the biggest challenges—and surprises—of leading a fast-growing cyber firm?

In this special episode, THEOS Cybernova flips the script as Paul Jackson moves from host to guest, with W4 Podcast Studio's, Ian Carless, taking the reins. Paul reflects on his first 100 days as CEO of THEOS Cyber, sharing his journey from policing in Hong Kong to leading a top cybersecurity firm in Asia. He unpacks the challenges, key priorities, and leadership lessons shaping THEOS 2.0, offering a candid look at his transition into the CEO role.

From building a strong cyber team to driving business growth, Paul shares what it takes to steer a company forward—and, of course, reveals what’s been spinning on his turntable.

Production Credits:

Presented by: Paul Jackson
Studio Engineer & Editor: Roy D'Monte
Executive Producers: Paul Jackson and Ian Carless
Co-produced by: Theos Cyber and W4 Podcast Studio

Paul Jackson:

Wherever you are in the world, welcome to the Theos Cybernova podcast. My name is Paul Jackson, your host usually. But before we begin, I've got a quick favor to ask from you. There's one simple way that you can support our show, and that's by hitting that follow or subscribe button on the app that you're listening to the show on right now. It makes a huge difference in helping get the show out there to as many people as possible, so please give us a hand and click that button now.

Ian Carless:

The Theos Cybernova podcast hosted by Paul.

Paul Jackson:

Jackson. So here we go with episode nine of the Theos Cybernova podcast and, as I mentioned earlier, I am usually the host, but today the guest on the show is Paul Jackson yes, me and I am being hosted by the legend that is Ian Carlos. So, as usual, we're digging into the latest trends, challenges and innovations shaping the cybersecurity landscape and talking to a fantastic mix of leading industry experts Is that me, Ian.

Ian Carless:

I believe in this instance it's you, Paul. Yeah, Paul, welcome to the Theos Cybernova podcast.

Paul Jackson:

Thank you so much. It feels really weird being on this side of the microphone, but it's great having you as the host.

Ian Carless:

Well, just for context, my name's Ian Carlos and we produce the Theos Cybernova podcast alongside Paul and Theos Cyber, and this episode is going to focus on Paul's first 100 days as the CEO of Theos Cyber.

Paul Jackson:

Wow.

Ian Carless:

So I'm going to kick off. Right, I'm going to rewind. Actually, paul, we're going to go right back to the beginning. Okay, do you think I can remember that far back though? Ian, you might need a few prompts. I'll hold up some cards if you need them. Okay, so we'll go right back to the beginning. Okay, so cast your mind back to what? The late eighties. How did you end up in Hong Kong?

Paul Jackson:

What a great question. And look, joking aside, I can never forget that because it was kind of like winning the lottery. You know, I was a student in Liverpool university studying engineering, electronics and telecommunications, but I'm kind of an outdoor person and I didn't see myself at that point in time sitting behind a desk somewhere doing engineering. So I kind of had a notion for joining the police and I was applying for the Merseyside police of all police forces in the UK, I know and he dodged a bullet there, dodged a bullet indeed and a friend walked into the pub one lunchtime because that's what you do when you're a student, right? And he slapped a daily telegraph down on the table and he said Oi, jacko, he goes. You want to be a cop, right? They said, why not join the Hong Kong police?

Paul Jackson:

And sure enough, in the telegraph there was an advert for joining the as it was then the Royal Hong Kong Police, pointing there, as it was then the Royal Hong Kong Police, because obviously Hong Kong was a British colony. And yeah, it was simple as that. I tore out the advert, tucked it in my pocket because, of course, no internet in those days I couldn't send an email. I had to actually write a letter to apply and went through the interview processes for both Merseyside Police and the Hong Kong. Police Got both jobs got accepted by both within a week of each other. Bizarrely, police Got both jobs got accepted by both within a week of each other. Bizarrely, not a hard choice, right Hong Kong or Liverpool. So at 22 years old, I hopped on a plane via Bahrain to Hong Kong and never looked back.

Ian Carless:

Fantastic, and it's probably safe to say. At that time, I mean, not many people, and certainly not a 22-year-old engineering student from Liverpool University, had any probably inkling about what Hong Kong was like and what awaited him when he stepped off the plane. What were your first impressions? I'm not going to say when you stepped off the plane, but if you look back, perhaps just to the end of that first week, what were your first impressions? It must have been I mean obviously a culture shock at the time 100%.

Paul Jackson:

So it was December, so it was freezing cold in the UK, right, and as you might recall, because you've known me a long time, I was doing a temporary job as a gardener outdoors in December and so getting on the plane I had all my heavy gear and stuff and got off the plane thinking, well, it must be winter in Hong Kong as well. And sure enough it was winter in Hong Kong as well, and sure enough it was winter in Hong Kong and there's people walking around in jackets, but it was still 20 degrees plus and I was amazed at the sort of temperature and the sunshine. But also I was amazed at the mass of humanity. You know, growing up in Yorkshire yeah, it was nothing prepared you for the really massive humanity that exists in Hong Kong and the energy that runs through the place, and I kind of fell in love with it from the get-go. It really has got that energy that keeps you young, keeps you full of life.

Ian Carless:

I think that was probably one of my first impressions as well was just the sheer pace of the city, Like you say, the energy. I mean, there's the old adage, isn't it? You can't stroll down the street in Hong Kong, can you? At least not without getting barged in the back by about 17 million people trying to get past you in a hurry.

Ian Carless:

So you, joined the police you get there. I know obviously because we've known each other a long time I know you had to go through basic training. But once you've got through all that, what was policing like in Hong Kong back in those days?

Paul Jackson:

I think it could be summed up in one word it was an adventure. It really was. So I was very fortunate I was assigned to be in the Marine Police straight from training school, and it was like an episode of Miami Vice at times, you know, because smuggling was rampant in the late 80s and early 90s. So we were, you know, at times chasing smugglers on speedboats or, at other times, dealing with the Vietnamese boat people issue, which was still, you know, continuing in those days. So it was just a real adventure. It was stuff I could never even imagine coming out of the UK. It was just such a fantastic experience. I could write books on all of the adventures that we had during those days.

Paul Jackson:

To be honest, though, there comes a time when you need to focus on something, and I had an engineering background, technology background, and in the mid-90s, everything changed.

Paul Jackson:

Suddenly, the mobile phone market opened up, the internet became prevalent, you know, prevalent and they needed somebody in policing, with my kind of background, that could lead teams that were focused on, you know, telecoms, crimes or tracing cell phones, and, you know, dealing with the problems that were arising from increased use of the internet.

Paul Jackson:

You know, you remember those days back in the 90s, the Y2K bug that we were all terrified of and the I love you viruses and things like that. So it was exciting times and it got me back into technology and I just, you know, entered it with a passion and really found my feet, just loved it from the get go and, you know, moved from the telecom side of things into computer forensics, which was nascent in the late 90s. And no books, you had to do all your own research. You had to do all your own fact-finding and I would spend hours and hours and days and months, you know, just researching little parts of forensics just to understand how we could better get evidence. And that served me well because it gave me that solid foundation for continuing my career in incident response and forensics around the globe.

Ian Carless:

Now I know you've asked this of a couple of other of your guests, certainly the ones that had a career in law enforcement before moving into the private sector. How difficult a transition was that for you.

Paul Jackson:

Wow, yes, Do you know what? Well, to backtrack a little bit, you know, I was eventually put in charge of the technology crime forensics teams in Hong Kong police and I also worked with Interpol doing training and capacity building around the world for law enforcement, and it was such a great experience and I was really loathe to leave. But times were changing and, plus, I got a really great offer from JP Morgan and you can't really turn down the world's biggest bank, Right? So? But I thought, you know, hang on, I'm just a dumb cop, right? How am I going to, you know, hold my head up amongst all these brilliant geniuses at JP Morgan? But you know what I got there and what I learned?

Paul Jackson:

What I realized was a lot of what I didn't realize I'd been picked up in the Hong Kong police, was leadership skills, was making decisions, was, you know, dealing with the hard stuff. And it stood me in really good stead because you know I could walk in and change things and make things improve the way that they were doing forensics and investigations, et cetera. And it got me noticed and I got promoted and moved across to New York as the global head of cyber investigations. So the transition was daunting, but on the other hand, once I'd started, I quickly realized that the skills that the police had taught me really stood me in great stead for moving into that world.

Ian Carless:

And you had a couple of years, didn't you, with JP Morgan, certainly based in the States, and then you made the transition back to Asia and prior to joining Theos, you were obviously managing director of Kroll Again. What made you make the jump from a huge international multinational company like Kroll to something slightly smaller, shall we say?

Paul Jackson:

Yes, although it won't be for long if I have my way. No, but yeah, look, this is a question I've been asked a lot because I did have other offers. I did have other possibilities. I did have other you know possibilities, should I say. But you know what? I looked at Theos and I'd been hearing about them even when I was at Kroll. You know we had mutual clients and their name kept cropping up and I could tell from talking to our clients that they really loved what Theos was doing. They were clearly doing a lot of things right. So when Alex Hudlow, the founder and in fact he was our first guest on the podcast approached me when he heard about Kroll withdrawing suddenly from the Asia Pacific market for cyber anyway, he approached me and said hey, have you thought about joining a locally based company, an APAC headquartered company? Because Theos is headquartered in Singapore with a real focus on this region that you love? You know so much and you know I look back on my time with Kroll and, yes, it was full of great growth and our reputation was going through the roof.

Paul Jackson:

But there were challenges around geopolitics, the US firm and also around the global economy, with the interest rates rise when you're held by private equity. This changes a lot of the dynamics as to how you can operate. So moving to a company that didn't have those constraints really appealed to me and also a chance to leave a legacy. Obviously, I'm not young, right? So this is now the later stages in my career and moving to CEO just seemed to be a more of an opportunity to leave a legacy and to build something special in this region, because most of the well-known cyber companies are either headquartered in US, europe, israel, etc. Very few that are headquartered in our region. So it was an opportunity, I thought, to leave a mark.

Ian Carless:

And how difficult an adjustment has it been from, say, moving from a managing director role to a CEO role. Did you have preconceived notions about, perhaps, what the role might entail? And I guess the second part of that question is how has the role so far, in the first 100 days, differed, to say what perhaps some of your preconceptions might have been?

Paul Jackson:

That's a great question. I think the answer is yes and no. It was and it wasn't a difficult adjustment. So, look, a lot of what I'm doing is the same. It's leading a big team of folks who are just absolutely brilliant at what they do and getting the best out of them and, you know, helping to motivate them, helping them further their career. You know, being a mentor to them when needed and just basically making them feel part of the journey, part of the story. That was pretty much identical to what I was doing as an MD, a managing director, for, you know, for Asia, for Kroll.

Paul Jackson:

Here, though, there's more responsibility, right? I'm now responsible for the company, for the health of the company, for the livelihoods of all the employees and for, you know, the financial performance of the company as well. You know, no longer am I part of a big global piece. This is it right. You know I'm directly responsible for how the company performs, and it's quite daunting because you know you look at the pipelines, you look at numbers and you know you need to be thinking months ahead, you know even years ahead, rather than just thinking for today, like I was at Kroll. So it's definitely a change of mindset. It's something that I'm slowly adapting to. There are a lot of challenges, but you know I'm embracing them because it's always good to be continuously learning, right.

Ian Carless:

And what would you say would be your most unexpected challenge so far?

Paul Jackson:

well, um, again, that's uh, I would say not unexpected challenge. I think, uh, unexpected, um, almost benefit really would would be how we've been received. Right, because you know when I, when I left crawl, I had to, you know, basically curtail a number of contracts because of, you know, when I left Kroll, I had to, you know, basically curtail a number of contracts because of, you know, closing down the operations in Asia. And you know, I wondered how people in the industry would respond to me. You know, whether they would feel let down, because you know they were obviously appreciating the service and were disappointed when things changed. And I think one of the biggest surprises to me was how well we've been received, how well it's been received the news that Theos is expanding. You know it's building out a capability that's Asia focused, that's really local and it's been it's. It's made me feel really good. You know it's it's kind of, I guess, surprised me the response and it'd been quite humbling in many ways as well. So you know I'd say that's the best thing.

Paul Jackson:

I don't think so far there's been no major sort of difficulties or challenges. There's been a few minor things that have needed fixing, a few tweaks. I've looked at sales, for example. I think it's important, sales is such a vital component, the lifeblood of the firm, and I looked at how we could do that better and made a few tweaks there to improve things. Marketing as you've seen right, we've had many discussions about marketing and it's been so effective in terms of building our brand and I've got to say a big thank you to Poi, who's our head of marketing, who's done just such an amazing job of raising our brand profile.

Paul Jackson:

And then there's the human, or the relationship side of things and you know we made a few changes there Again. Another excellent hire brought in Mickey, who she is just amazing, you know. And it's not just about internal relationships, it's about building those relationships outside of the company. Our internal relationships, it's about building those relationships outside of the company and you know to to, you know to basically build our brand and credibility. But the last I think the most important thing perhaps I've done is is to step back a little bit. You know I can't be client facing so much anymore. I've got to learn to step back and trust my leadership bench and I've got in particular on the delivery side. I've spoken about some of the support side, but on the delivery side, we've got three amazing leaders who are all learning to step up and take responsibility for the functions that they manage, and that's Ivan, nate and Jason, who are just three incredible leaders who are growing into their role, and I'm proud to be helping them in that process.

Ian Carless:

Now you talk about pipelines and, obviously, the long-term financial viability of the company, and in the same breath we've also talked about relationships. It's an interesting dynamic, isn't it? And I just wanted to ask you a little bit about how you think you might manage that dynamic between having to step back into perhaps more of an oversight role that a CEO involves, but yet still maintaining those relationships, because I know, obviously from my time in Asia and some would say this is true all over the world, but I think in particular in Asia relationships are so important. So how do you foresee being able to sort of manage that balance?

Paul Jackson:

know, I'm here to run the firm, but, on the other hand, the ultimate goal, or the short-term goal, or the initial goal, is to increase revenue and profitability, right, um, without that, we can't grow as a business, right? We? We this? I should step back a little bit, because it's actually a very well-run business and that's what attracted me, one of the reasons that attracted me as well. Um, you know alex and his uh, his partner. There's only two owners of of theos and you know, there, alex and his partner, there's only two owners of Theos. And you know there's no other external investors, there's no private equity or anything, and everything that they put into the firm has been, or every profit that's been made since the initial investment has been reinvested in the firm and it's grown organically. That way, it's a wonderful position to be in, without debts and without, you know, investments, or you know, or angel investors or whatever. So that is fantastic.

Paul Jackson:

And then my goal initially is obviously to grow this revenue and profitability further, so that we can invest further, to continue to grow and expand within the region. There's plenty of demand out there is what I'm seeing. But in order to do that you're right, you've got to be in front of people. You've got to knock on doors, you've got to do the hard yards and we brought in the amazing Bill Anderson to head up business development and client relationships and he's working us to the bone because he's just so well-connected and we are traveling, we are knocking on doors, we're getting in front of people, which you are absolutely right, ian. You've got to do that personal touch in Asia, build that personal relationship and trust. I always look at business as being a Venn diagram of three things and I'm waving my finger around for anybody who can't actually see us at the moment but a Venn diagram of basically trust, quality and value, and we're at the intersection of all those, and trust is possibly the most important thing and you build that by getting in front of people.

Ian Carless:

Perhaps, then, for those who perhaps have stumbled across this podcast and Theos Cyber for the first time, perhaps you could give us a brief overview of the services that Theos provides and also where you operate.

Paul Jackson:

Yeah, absolutely yeah. We should possibly have started with that, shouldn't we? But yeah, let me go back to my Venn diagram again, because it's nice to have the rule of three and we focus on three core areas of business. And we just want to focus on those because we want to do them well, we don't want to dilute them, we want to give the best possible service to our clients. So those three areas are defense, offense and response. So defense means helping companies protect, helping to monitor and to look for threats on their environment, on their computer environment.

Paul Jackson:

Offense is all about ethical hackers attacking and testing the security of apps, of systems, of networks, et cetera, either by vulnerability assessments, penetration testing, which are the more straightforward kind of tests, through to the more complex red teaming, which we excel at and the team do a magnificent job. Red team is basically playing an adversary and being given remit to break into a company to highlight. Well, it tests a lot of things. It tests A, whether their detection capabilities are picking them up. If they are picking them up, how are they responding to any alerts that are generated from that attack and ultimately, how they cascade and escalate and deal with it. So red teaming is pretty critical for many mature companies who really want to test their systems. So that's the offense side. And then now, since I joined, because my background is all about investigation and response, so I brought in the response piece and brought in a world leader you know Nate in the response piece and brought in a world leader. You know Nate, who's a former New Zealand government sneaky, beaky type and just amazing at his job, nathan Reed and he leads that team now and this is the important component that was missing before. So we're now in a position to help companies when they're in crisis. Basically, and also importantly, you know, having the response capabilities allows clients to engage us with retainers.

Paul Jackson:

Retainers are there for emergencies, incident response retainers. So you know this is something that pretty much every company now needs. You know somebody, a fireman, on standby in case their house catches fire, if you like, as an analogy. But the beauty of a retainer is that once you've got SLAs and legal agreements with us, you don't have to hang around. If you've got an emergency, we see to it right away and that's the important thing having SLAs in place so that we respond quickly. So retainers were not possible without having that response capability and that's probably the most in-demand solution, if you like, that we offer Because companies see the value. Even if they don't have a crisis, they can use the funds they put towards a retainer for a pen test, or for a red team test, or for a tabletop exercise or a board briefing so many other things that we can deliver. So it's really, you know, about finding the needs, listening to clients, what they need and filling those gaps with quality. So we just focus on those three core areas.

Ian Carless:

Oh, you asked also about.

Paul Jackson:

Where didn't you?

Ian Carless:

I did yeah, because I know you focus on APAC, don't you?

Paul Jackson:

Correct. So we're headquartered in Singapore, but we have a big operation in Manila. That's because young talent here, very good talent, and obviously it helps us keep the costs down. It's a lower cost jurisdiction, but really it's about the talent. Honestly, the people we have here are absolutely amazing and it's a huge country with loads of young talent. But we also have offices and people in Hong Kong and KL as well. So those are our four main locations where we actually have offices. But we're nimble, we're always on the move and we can really service any location in our region.

Ian Carless:

And is the intention just to perhaps stay focused on the APAC region, or is world domination in the sights?

Paul Jackson:

Of course, world domination is in our sights, but actually it's funny you should say that because, yes, we're always going to remain, I believe, at Asia-headquartered and Asia-focused. Yeah, there's no reason why anybody from any other country can't use our services. We've got the right talent. You know, most of our services can be delivered remotely the pen, testing, et cetera, and the monitoring. We can do that remotely. And going back to those three, the Venn diagram, we could do it with trust, quality and value, importantly. So we can operate out here in Asia with much lower cost base and we can pass those savings on to clients, you know. So they get the same quality. So, wherever they are in the world, they can come to us and get the same quality, but at a, you know, more value for money.

Ian Carless:

So, just focusing back onto you and your role as a CEO, what were your initial goals when you first walked through the Theos door? What were your initial goals when you first walked through the Theos door? I know most CEOs probably have some short-term goals that they want to achieve, and then, obviously, the mid and longer-term ones. So what were your initial short-term goals?

Paul Jackson:

Well, I've already touched on it. Really the focus has been on increased client base and hence increased revenue and profitability, and doing the hard yards getting out there. But in order to do that, we also need to build the branding. So I've been focused a lot on the brand building and knocking on doors and my initial goals was to get Theos as a recognized company, not a small player anymore, because we've moved from that phase now we're now a serious player in the market and this is what we call Theos 2.0. And it's ensuring that all the team you know getting because it's not just me doing this right, this is a team effort, so everybody has to play a part, so it's motivating the team. I was just on a big marketing call today with the team and you could see the buy-in, you know, you could see the energy. Everyone wants the us to succeed as a company. So these are my initial goals and I think we're well on the way a hundred days in and I think we're we're well on the way with that.

Ian Carless:

And what would you? What would you say that the us is doing differently, perhaps, from some of your other competitors?

Paul Jackson:

I think you know I've seen, you know I'll be on both sides of the table. Obviously I've sat, you know, in the corporate world and in the government world and I've seen too many vendors that will sell you something based on you know a leader that's in there and he comes with all the bells and whistles and promises but when they actually deliver they send the B team or you know a bunch of graduates coming in. They don't really engage with the client and they don't really view it as a partnership. It's more just let's make a bit of money off them. We're the opposite. Right, we want to build that.

Paul Jackson:

We are very sticky with clients. Here. We have more than 90% retention rate with clients. You know they keep coming back to us because of this. You know way we operate. We operate putting the client first. We build the relationships. We want to be a partner for the long term and we don't, we don't, we don't hire graduates. Well, we do, but we don't hire graduates to be client facing. You know, and uh, we help them build graduates and help them in their career, but the if we're sending folks to do work with clients, they you've got years of experience behind them, they know what they're doing and they treat the client well. So I think that's the main differentiator, but it's also the talent that we've got. You know, I look at the people. It's just incredibly. You know how good they are, and I think clients come to value this, you know, once they get to know us.

Ian Carless:

I just want to circle back to again your role personally, and there's a lot of talk amongst leadership teams and at the you know the executive table about, about leadership style. How would you describe your leadership style?

Paul Jackson:

Wow, it's a great. So I've got a lot to thank the Hong Kong police for. As I said earlier, I didn't really realize at the time how much that taught us Because, don't forget, I was 22, right, when I moved to Hong Kong and you joined as an inspector. So you're thrown out of training school after nine months leading a team of 30, 40, 50 guys Well, guys and gals and you're 22 years old, right, and you either sink or swim kind of thing.

Paul Jackson:

You learn the hard way. Yes, you make mistakes, but as long as you keep learning from them, you keep developing, and I think there's very few roles in this world, other than perhaps military, where you can get that kind of leadership experience at such a young age and learn and develop from it. So I've always learned the hard way in many cases. You have to trust your guys and you have to treat them well, with the respect. So I think my leadership style is all about, you know that, giving respect, giving opportunities to people, not taking the glory. You know giving credit where it's due, to the right people, listening as well Very important to listen and hear the issues that the teams are facing and be responsive to it. Don't just play lip service, actually try and do something about it. You can't always do something about it, but if you can't, try and explain why you can't and it really does come down, I think, to communication and treating people right and I think, as I said, I've got a lot to thank the Hong Kong police for in that regard.

Ian Carless:

Yeah, you touch on some interesting points there, because, you know, I think from my experience, one of the best traits that I see in some of the best leaders is also humility, you know is, I think, being able to acknowledge, in cases where you know you've made a mistake, and put your hand up in the air and take responsibility for it.

Ian Carless:

But also, I think you know, another good skill and I think it's related to the humility angle as well is it's being confident in your own ability and not feeling threatened by those around you. You know, I mean I know from some of my roles in the past that I know that the best way to get what I want for either my team or my company is to employ the best possible people available for the job, and that often means employing people who are far more skilled than I am. But you know what? That's fine because, at the end of the day, we share a common goal, don't we? Which is basically the benefit for both the company and everyone on board. So, rather than see that as a threat and I'm sure we've all worked in environments where leaders we know leaders who see people like that as a threat and not an asset, and so I think you know that whole element of humility is a really important one to take forward 100%.

Paul Jackson:

You should never be the smartest person at the table when you're running teams and I've always lived by that. I've been fortunate to hire some of the most gifted people in the world in my teams and you know, I never once feel threatened. It's you know, they make you look good, ultimately, and I can never understand and you're right, I've seen so many leaders who do this, but I can never understand leaders who just hire, yes, men or you know folks that are not going to challenge them in any way to make them feel good. And, yes, we see it all too often, sadly.

Ian Carless:

Yeah, I totally agree. What's been your most rewarding moment so far?

Paul Jackson:

Yeah, I think, yeah, I think. Look, ian, I've already touched on this and I think the most rewarding feeling is being appreciated. You know, having all these you know former connections and clients come and say, well, we've seen you. You know you've resurfaced at Theos, this is amazing news. You know we're so glad and you know we trust you. You know we really want to work with you again and I just think you know that's a reflection on the all the good things that you know we've managed to achieve down the years and you know I feel really proud about that. So, yeah, I think that's that's right now is the most rewarding thing, and just to have, you know, an equally gifted team now to deliver to them in the same level of quality and I am just surrounded by excellent people, which is amazing.

Ian Carless:

Speaking of excellence, there's one area where we know you're perhaps not so excellent in and don't excel in, I know taking you back to your Hong Kong police days dragon boat racing was a bit of a pastime of yours, wasn't it? To varying degrees of success or otherwise. Do you want to elaborate?

Paul Jackson:

not really, but okay, I'm going to. Yes, you know, you're very familiar with this story, of course, because you were in hong kong at that time, and these were crazy times. Right, there were fun times. I'm going back now to um.

Paul Jackson:

I think it was 1991 or 1990, I can't remember which but I was based in Tai O and, for anyone who knows Hong Kong, what a place to be. I mean, it's a fishing village that's on stilts, basically it was in the middle of nowhere. It's on Lantau Island where they've now built the airport, but in those days it was a backwater. You could only get to it by boat and I was in charge of half of the island, living in Tai O police station, which is now a boutique, a beautiful boutique hotel. But, yes, I had this great idea of integrating with the community, you know, being the young, energetic inspector that I was, and I told my team right, we're going to participate in the Tai O annual dragon boat race competition. But we're all really great, we don't need to train, right?

Paul Jackson:

So, for those who know Tayo, it's a very narrow sort of bay as you go into the river, and so they could only race two boats at a time and we got pitched against a bunch of 14, 15-year-old secondary school kids in one boat and we turned up with all these big police officers in the other boat and we got in for the… what could possibly go wrong? What could possibly go wrong? Our drummer hadn't got a clue. We hadn't got a clue. So we all started rowing in different directions and water gradually filled up the boat and, to the delight of the watching villagers, they watched as our boat gracefully sank into the ogging in the middle of Taiyo Bay. A most humiliating moment, but I think it taught me a couple of lessons. First of all, teamwork is important. Right, you've got to teamwork and don't go into anything unrehearsed, right, always, always, practice before you take on something. But then I was what? 23, 24 at the time, and I thought I knew better. So, yeah, I'm sure they still tell stories about that in Tai O, but hey-ho.

Ian Carless:

Well they do. This is how you've entered the Tai O folklore Indeed Well before we wrap up, paul, I know you always ask your guests at the end of a podcast about music. Oh yes, I'm familiar with some of your musical tastes over the years, dubious some of them might be, country music being one of them. But come on then for the listeners, what are you listening to right now? What's on your turntable?

Paul Jackson:

Okay. So actually I can see it because my turntable's in front of me and I can see the packaging as well. What I have been listening to fairly constantly lately is the Orb Collection Orbitorum, which is a beautifully packaged, although very hard to get the vinyl records out of, although very hard to get the vinyl records out of, a collection of remastered versions of their best-known songs down the years. It's just beautiful.

Ian Carless:

Little fluffy clouds.

Paul Jackson:

Little fluffy clouds indeed. But I tell you what you know over the last two or three years, the one record that always resurfaces and constantly finds its way back onto my turntable, bizarrely, is the Voltarol Years, which I kind of resonate with by Half man, half Biscuit, which is I don't know why you're laughing, but it's truly magical. The lyrics are out of this world and it's just amazing music and, as I say, it never fails to find its way back to my turntable somehow.

Ian Carless:

So there you go Half man, half Biscuit. You have to provide just a little context for the listeners so that they know what Half man Half Biscuit is. Just a little.

Paul Jackson:

Well, I suggest you go on Spotify and listen for yourself. The Voltarol Years, I mean, what a title. I mean they're obviously of an age. So I think that title sums it up, and it's just the cleverness of the lyrics. The late great John Peel described them, I think, as the jewel of English music, or words to that effect, and he wasn't wrong. I mean, they've entertained us down the years, but their latest album is, to my mind, their finest and, as I say, I'm almost wearing out already after a couple of years. So there you go.

Ian Carless:

Awesome. And before we wrap up, a slightly more serious question just to finish on. You've done 100 days now as the CEO of Theos. Yes, what are you most looking forward to in the next 100 days?

Paul Jackson:

Well, apart from getting some sleep, I would say, to be honest, it's about now locking up these deals, you know, getting the clients in because, as, as you, as you know, you know, um, doing business is is not an immediate thing, right? You, you, you start talking to clients, letting them know what, what you're about, and rebuilding the trust and confidence. Uh to when you, you, you know you get them as a client and as and win the deals. And that's happening already and we're going to see that accelerate, I believe, during the next 100 days, 200 days, et cetera. And I am very bullish on the growth of this company. I think it's much needed in the region. We've got the right attitude, clients like it and I am very confident that it will be a success. So, yeah, looking forward to those 100 days that are coming up, very much so.

Ian Carless:

Brilliant Well, paul. Thank you for joining me on your own podcast, the Theos Cybernova, and we look forward to you and your next guest.

Paul Jackson:

This podcast was presented by Ian Carlos, for a change, with myself, paul Jackson as a guest. The studio engineer and editor was Roy DeMonte, the executive producer was myself and Ian Carlos, and this podcast is a co-production between Theos Cyber and the amazing W4 Podcast Studio in Dubai.

Ian Carless:

The Theos Cybernova Podcast.

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